Category Archives: Windows Update

WU: How Long Is Too Long?

Here’s a Windows road I’ve been down many times. Indeed, it’s the kind of road, as in Robert Earl Keen’s excellent song, that “goes on forever…” It’s the road you walk on when WU hangs during download, GUI install, or post-GUI install. I read with amazement this morning in an ElevenForum thread that some poor soul waited THREE HOURS on a stuck install before asking for help. Ouch! Of course this raises the question with WU: How long is too long when things get stuck?

For me, the TLDR; answer is “10-15 minutes.” I just don’t have the patience to wait much longer. And FWIW, I’ve only seldom seen something that’s been stuck that long succeed after such a delay.

In WU, How Long Is Too Long Depends on You

At some point, the stuckee realizes that nothing is going to change, no matter how much longer one waits. That’s the point at which one must bite the bullet, and restart the stuck PC. Holding down the power button for 10 or more seconds until the PC shuts down will usually do it. Sometimes, however, one must either power off the PSU (desktops) or take more drastic steps (e.g. disconnect battery or wait for it to drain completely on a laptop).

Surprisingly, in the dozens of times I’ve had to do this when stuck in the past 5 years or so, the aftermath has mostly been positive. Often, Windows will simply pick up where the stuck update left off and finish up from there. Sometimes, it will roll back to the pre-install state instead.

Only in a handful of cases has the affected PC refused to boot correctly. When that happens, it’s time to pull out your rescue media and perform an image restore to your last known,good, working image backup. You have one of those, right? I’ve learned the answer to that question had better be “Heck, yeah. Let’ s go!”

Overcoming The Worst Case Scenario

No image backup and no working PC can be problematic. Hopefully, you’ve got at least some important stuff backed up someway, somehow (OneDrive, maybe?). You’ll either find a way to run a repair install (works sometimes) or you’ll have to choose between a clean install or a factory reset. Hopefully, it won’t come to that. I haven’t had to go there but once or twice in the 30-plus years I’ve been running Windows. Hopefully, your odds and experience will be the same. Good luck!

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Long Hard 27788 Upgrade Road

Whoa! In the realm of Windows Insider Preview upgrades, sometimes you win and sometimes you lose. This time around — starting from Build 27783 — I found myself on a long, hard 27788 upgrade road for this latest Canary Channel version. When I tell you what happened, and how I surmounted the obstacles on that path, you may be able to save yourself some unnecessary time and effort.

To begin with, what I lost on this upgrade road was time. I spent most of yesterday afternoon going through various motions to try to get the Insider Preview for 27788 and a companion KB5053390 (CU for .NET Framework…) up and running. All such attempts, alas, proved fruitless.

Traversing That Long Hard 27788 Upgrade Road

Getting to the state depicted in the lead-in graphic — showing that the Lenovo ThinkPad X12 Hybrid Tablet is up-to-date in WU and running Build 27788 in Winver — took some doing and some time. In fact, it wasn’t until I read about a workaround in an ElevenForum post from Russian user @Dronix that I made any real headway. Along the way, each update/upgrade cycle took about 1:10 (70 minutes) to work through.

I’ll deliver a recitation of what I tried that didn’t help my problems. I am also speculating when I say this, but I believe one can’t upgrade to 27788 until KB5053390 for .NET completes successfully. There may be dependencies in the upgrade that need the previous CU to complete successfully. And indeed, once I did that, the upgrade went through without further issues.

Here’s my list of failed strategies:
1. Simply retry the failed KB or upgrade item.
2. Run Eleven Forum’s Reset_Reregister_Windows_
Update_Components.bat from this Reset WU tutorial
3. Run the built-in WU Troubleshooter

What Worked: DISM-GUI 1.3.1.02

Turns out there’s a German software tool named DISM-GUI that lets one install KB .cab files from failed installations. You have to know the name (a partial name will do) of that file to provide it as a target. The afore-linked Eleven Forum thread identifies it, and it includes the KB number as a sub-string. Using Voidtools Everything, I found it immediately (search string *KB5053390*.cab). For the record, the filename is:

Windows11.0-KB5053390-x64-NDP481.cab

Click on the box in DISM-GUI that reads “CAB Install” (lower left) and the program will prompt for the file location. You can get that from Everything, then left-shift click and use the “Copy as Path” option (you’ll have to delete opening and closing quote marks).

This opens a Command Prompt session and uses DISM to install the package for you. Unlike the WU driver install, this actually works. And it takes less than two minutes to complete. Then, when you’ve got the CU installed, the follow-up upgrade to 27788 works, too.

TLDR: Possible Problems with 27788 Are Fixable

If you read through the whole Eleven Forum thread about 27788, some posters were able to install KB5053390 and the 27788 upgrade without any difficulties. Numerous others — myself included– got exactly nowhere until they used DISM-GUI to get over the KB5053390 hump.

Should you find yourself in the same boat, you can go straight to the workaround using that tool, and avoid the hours and hours of thrashing about I went through yesterday. Why not learn from my experience, instead of repeating that misery?

Providing such info explains why I write this blog. It also explains why I expect lifetime employment doing that kind of thing here in Windows-World. It’s always something…

But Wait! There’s More… (Added Jan 7)

When I logged into the X380 and the X12 this morning, KB5053390 again showed up as needed. And again, a regular WU install failed. So this time, I fired off DISM-GUI taking the left-click “Run as administrator…” option. Apparently that did the trick. Here are some screencaps along the way:

Between the 2nd and 3rd screencap, I ran DISM-GUI again (as admin) and it showed a successful conclusion at the command line, then reboot with successful update there after). Once I rebooted the system and it worked through the rest of the process, I got the 3rd figure above from WU. Gadzooks! I hope it’s finally over…

 

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Decoding Builds Requires Keen Attention

Ha! I have to laugh at myself. I just tried to update my Beta Channel Insider Preview test PC (one of my two aging X380 Yoga laptops) for no good reason. Or, perhaps it was for a bad reason — namely, I read about a new beta with a lesser build number of 4870. It wasn’t until I got further into the story that I figured out the update was for version 23H2. I’m running 24H2 so my minor build number is properly at 3073 right now (as you see in the lead-in screencap). Its higher major number: 26120 vs 22635 reminds me that decoding builds requires keen attention. Oops!

Truly, Decoding Builds Requires Keen Attention

What got me this time was that I looked only at the digits after the period, rather than checking both sides. If I’d really thought about what I was seeing, it would have instantly been clear. Because I’m running 24H2, perforce its major build number (26120) is greater than the same number for 23H2 (22635). Thus, even though the minor build number is higher (4870 vs. 3073) it doesn’t signify to my test PC because it’s not the same thing.

There’s never any shortage of confusion around here at Chez Tittel for all kinds of reasons. Alas, today’s ration was self-induced. But it did give me chuckle and remind me that it’s always important to put news of changes and updates into their complete context. Other-wise, who knows what one might expect or believe? Words to live by, not just here in Windows-World but in the wider world as well.

 

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Weird Win10 Insider Mismatch

When I report a Windows puzzle, I usually like to provide a solution. But I just noticed something odd I may not have time to solve today. It looks to me like a weird Win10 Insider mismatch. Let me explain: my production PC is signed up for the Beta Channel, as you can see in the lead-in graphic. But a quick Winver run shows that PC running version 19045.5371 (see below). Alas, the current Beta Channel Insider Preview Build is 19045.5194. And there’s the mismatch in plain sight!

The Build number on this supposed Beta Channel PC corresponds to the current public/production release.

Fixing Weird Win10 Insider Mismatch

Upon closer examination, the Beta build is lower than the current production build. Looks like I want to switch to the Release Preview channel at Build 19045.5435 instead. Let me try that… No joy.

So then, I do some more poking around online, turns out I need to re-select the Beta Channel item (see lead-in graphic) and open its subsidiary window. That lets me switch to the Release Preview channel. Then when I pop back up two levels to re-run an update check, I get what I want:

Turns out my problem is an error in understanding how to switch from Beta to Insider Preview channel: problem solved!

Looks like the download and install are working. I’ll be rebooting soon: installing has reached 100% but not yet flipped over to “Restart pending…” Now it’s installing again … 20% … taking much longer … 45% … 73% … 88% … done. Restarting now… AAAAND winver now shows 19045.5435.

Turns out it wasn’t a channel mismatch: I was on the wrong channel FWIW, Copilot tells me that MS is shutting down Beta Channel, but is continuing to release into the RP (Release Preview) Channel. Hence, my need to change channels to get to the right build level. Apparently, I missed that memo. All fixed now!

As always here in Windows-World, fixing things is easy when one knows what to do. This time, it took me a while — and some new info — to figure out what that was. Go figure!

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Overcoming KB5050009 Update Errors

I’ve seen it before. And I’m grimly resigned to seeing it again. Every now and then, a Windows PC has issues with some Windows Update (WU) item. Mostly, though, I’ve seen this with Cumulative Updates (CUs) rather than security, MSRT, or servicing stack items. Indeed, this very situation popped up on a brand-new review unit from Lenovo following Patch Tuesday this week which brought KB5050009 to Windows 11 24H2. On all four of my other production level 24H2 PCs, no problem. On the ThinkCentre M90a (see yesterday’s intake review) however, I spent some time overcoming KB5050009 update errors. Let me explain…

Escalating Steps When Overcoming KB5050009 Update Errors

I’ve been through this kind of thing often enough that I’ve got a series of steps I follow when a WU update fails and throws an error. Here it is:

1. Write down the error string ( 0X800F081F in this case)
2. Run the WU update again (helpfully, it offers a “Retry” button)
3. If it fails, note the error message. Record only if different from 1.
4. Download and run the batch file from Eleven Forums Reset Windows Update tutorial (Batch file named Reset_Reregister_ Windows_Update_Components_for_Windows11 .zip).
5. Try again. It it fails. note the error message if different from 1.
6. Download the self-installing update file (.msu) from the Microsoft Update Catalog, then install.
7. If it fails, note the error message. Record only if different from 1.
8. Visit UUPdump.net. Create an ISO file for the target Build (26100.2894, as per KB5050009 support note).
9. Perform an in-place upgrade repair install on the affected PC. This applies the already-integrated CU as part of that process.
10. If that fails, perform a clean Windows install using the UUPdump ISO.

I’ve only had to beyond step 5 in a small number of instances in the 30-plus years I’ve been using Windows. This was one of those cases. To my surprise the catalog download failed the the same error message as before. Next, it took an hour and half to download and build the 26100.2894 ISO, and another 50 minutes or so to install that image on the ThinkCentre. Ouch!

One Step Short of Clean Install Works

But when the PC rebooted, it came up with no errors. Interestingly, the Update History does not show KB5050009, even though it must be present for the build number to reach 26100.2894. You can see this in the lead-in graphic, which shows that very build number, but not the CU entry for KB5050009. That’s because it was part of the install image when the upgrade repair install occurred, not added separately via WU.

But it does go to show that here in Windows-World, when WU won’t work, there may sometimes be a way to work around its failings. This is such a tale…

PostScript: About the 0X800F081F Message

Here’s what Copilot says about this error message, thanks to info from answers.microsoft.com:

The error code 0x800F081F typically occurs when the Deployment Image Servicing and Management (DISM) tool is unable to find the necessary source files to repair the Windows image. This can happen during Windows updates or when running the DISM /Online /Cleanup-Image /RestoreHealth command.

To me that indicates there was some WU issue with the files included in the update package that got downloaded from the WU servers. Curiously it also seems to have affected the Catalog item. I’ve never had that happen to me before. Go figure!

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ThinkBook Hybrid Fails 24H2 Upgrade

I can’t say I’m surprised, but I can confess to mild bepuzzlement. Over the weekend, WU decided that a new test laptop — a Lenovo ThinkBook Plus G5  — was ready for 24H2. Alas, for a variety of good reasons that ThinkBook hybrid fails 24H2 upgrade and goes down in flames. Indeed, I had to use the WinRE “Uninstall upgrade” option for the first time ever to bring that machine back to life.

Why ThinkBook Hybrid Fails 24H2 Upgrade

Of course, when I checked the machine this morning, I hadn’t interfered with WU, so it was already attempting this doomed upgrade again. You can see it’s at 25% complete in the lead-in graphic. I foiled that by restarting the PC, then pausing updates for 7 days in the WU controls, as you can see here:

While I’m troubleshooting, I suspended updates.

What the Panther Logs Have to Say

There are two primary logs worth checking into if an upgrade fails to complete successfully — namely:


C:\$Windows.~BT\Sources\panther\setupact.log
C:\$Windows.~BT\Sources\panther\miglog.xml

These are liberally bestrewn with errors of all kinds including device drivers and storage items. The ThinkBook’s “hybrid drive” bridges between native Windows storage on the deck and native Android storage on the tablet. It takes the form of something called a Hybrid Tab in File Explorer (see next screencap). I believe it’s very likely involved in my snafu.

Because it uses a special driver and customized software, I’m betting that the Hybrid Tab is the source of storage and driver issues.

Copilot tells me that if I upgrade from bootable media, the ThinkBook may survive the upgrade process intact. Right now, I think it’s losing the Hybrid Tab scaffolding amidst the post-GUI reboots during the serious parts of OS install. That sounds like it’s worth a try. But first, I’ll make a fresh image backup and be ready to restore same should things go south again.

Stay tuned! This could get interesting…

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MSA Switch Brings Standard 24H2 Aboard

Here’s the happy, happy conclusion of my recent saga involving the ThinkPad X1 Extreme laptop. When I ran the clean install of 24H2, I also provided a different MSA than the one I’d used previously. Because that combination of MSA and machine name is not enrolled in the Insider Preview program, the Windows installer went with the standard General Availability (GA) channel. Hence, I aver that an MSA switch brings standard 24H2 to that PC.

Why Say: MSA Switch Brings Standard 24H2?

The results speak for themselves, as you can see in the Winver output in the lead-in graphic. You can also see that the machine is not enrolled in any Insider Channel. Instead it says “Join the Windows Insider Program.” That means it’s not enrolled.

Because I use this machine on the road, especially for legal cases, that’s a good thing. I’m actually pleased to have this laptop back on the primary GA track. That means it should be as stable as Windows 11 gets. So, all’s well that ends well, but it took some doing.

A Long and Winding Road to 24H2 26100.2314

After I completed the clean install and started into the OOBE, I supplied a different MSA for this machine setup. It was therefore happy to stick with the GA thread of 24H2 releases. I did have to apply two sets of updates (2 CUs and one preceding update, plus an MSRT and a Confugration Update). I show most of that history in the next screencap:

2 CUs, another update, MST and configuration stuff (plus 8 drivers and 2 Defender updates) make the install current.

The Rest of the Schlemozzel

Now, of course, I need to restore the applications I like to use on my production PCs. PatchMyPC Home Updater can handle many of them, but I’ll need to install Office 2024, Nitro Pro, WizTree, and a few other odds’n’ends to bring the machine back to its former glory. But hey! I’m caught up to 24H2, back in the GA channel, and ready to rock and roll. It’s what passes for a happy ending, here in Windows-World!

Bottom line: as soon as the installer recognized it could only handle a clean install, things got on the right track. I’m not sure how I got off that track when I manually installed a CU the other day, but I’m glad to have a clue as to what’s what on that laptop finally restored.

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X1 Extreme 24H2 Beta Pickle

For me, a key aspect involved in learning Windows’ many ins and outs is occasionally painting myself into a corner. That’s what I seem to have done with the Beta Channel Windows 11 install image on my Lenovo ThinkPad X1 Extreme. ( Equipped with 8th-Gen i7-8850H, 32GB RAM, 2xNVMe SSD, and NVIDIA GTX 1050 Ti/Intel UHD 630.) As I explained in yesterday’s post I got it to build 22635.4460 under the 23H2 version umbrella. Upon discovering it was an Insider Preview anyway, I decided to run the 24H2 Installation Assistant, and let the chips fall as they would. Fall they did, and now I’m in an X1 Extreme 24H2 Beta pickle. Let me explain…

Easier Into than Out of X1 Extreme 24H2 Beta Pickle

Take a look at the lead-in graphic. It shows Settings > Windows Update > Windows Insider Program with the X1 Extreme in the Beta Channel. Alas, it also shows the Build number as 26100.1742. According to Copilot it was released on September 10. 2024 as part of the original Windows 11 24H2 update. It’s not a Beta Channel release. Rather, it’s a production release build (and what obviously provided the image info for the corresponding ISO or contents that the Installation Assistant uses).

That’s the corner I’m in right now. The Insider Program thinks I’m in the Beta Channel, but my current build and image fall outside that channel. On a whim I tried repairing the image with an ISO for 26100.2314 — the most current production build. To my combined relief and chagrin, this failed with a “The install failed” error. That’s what I’d expect from a version mismatch.

Onto the Next Repair: Beta Channel ISO

I’m now going to try again, with the latest Beta Channel item from the Windows 11 Inside Preview ISO Downloads page. My best guess, and my fervent hope, is that this will make for a successful in-place upgrade repair. At this point, I’m past the half-way point in the download. I’ll be able to access and use the ISO shortly…

The ISO mounted as the G: drive. I’m running setup.exe from the root directory right now. It’s checking for updates, then the installer had to restart itself. I’m now accepting the EULA and then comes the moment of truth: the only option available is for a clean install, as you can see here (note the two “keep” options are greyed out, and unavailable):

The Windows Installer finally gets wise and requires a clean install.

That’s an acceptable offer, and I’m going to take it. But first I want to experiment with WinGet Export to save all my stuff and attempt to import it back later on. I also need to make an image backup in case something goes wrong in my next planned steps.

Tomorrow, I’ll close this out, report on how the clean install went, and reflect on the whole experience. Stay tuned…

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X1 Extreme Still Gets No 24H2 Offer

I’m getting down to the bitter end, and it’s troubling me. The Lenovo ThinkPad X1 Extreme still gets no 24H2 offer from Windows Update. Indeed, it’s my only remaining 23H2 holdout. Looking at the 24H2 Known Issues List, I can’t figure out why. One outstanding possibility is the Synaptics WBDI fingerprint reader. But shoot, it’s dated 12/4/2022. I’m puzzled… OTOH, Copilot says that Intel Display Audio drivers include Intel SST audio support, and that’s a listed issue as well. It could be the blocker, and a good thing to know.

Waiting Impatiently, as X1 Extreme Still Gets No 24H2 Offer

Here’s what I’ve done to try to address potential update hold issues:

  1. Applied all Optional updates, including drivers
  2. Use Snappy Driver Installer Origin (SDIO) to update NVIDIA and Intel Display Audio drivers (restart required)
  3. Run comprehensive cleanup and integrity checks (PC Manager, DISM, sfc, etc.)

Still no joy, and no real clue on how to get over this hump. All in all, I’m both miffed and bemused that a 2018 vintage (8th-Gen) i7 PC is still lagging behind the update pack. I’m biting my tongue, holding back on forcing matters. I guess I have a perverse desire to see how long it’s going to take for WU to come through with 24H2.

Only time will tell, I guess! And that’s they way things go sometimes, here in Windows -World.

Additional Oddments Present on X1 Extreme

OK, so today is Patch Tuesday. I couldn’t get WU to present KB5046633, so I downloaded the self-installing update file (.msu). It took nearly an hour to get it up and going again, but the PC is now running 22635.4460. I suddenly understand that this PC is running the Beta Insider version (a surprise to me, or perhaps a “senior moment”). THAT explains why the update took so long: it had LOTS of work to do to fit it into the beta release…

Given that it’s running an Insider version anyway, I’ve decided to force matters using the 24H2 Installation Assistant. Here goes… Chunking through the GUI portion without issues, but took awhile (~ 45 minutes). First reboot to completion: same again. But I had no idea the Windows Installer could play such hopscotch with Insider Preview updates. I just flat thought it wouldn’t work. It’s actually kind of amazing. And, with many things in my Windows experience, the biggest surprises — like this one — are mostly self-inflicted.

There is a problem though: the Build Number currently self-reports at 26100.1742. This corresponds to the early October build for plain-vanilla 24H2, NOT the beta version. I just ran WU and updated again, and it still reports the same build number. Very strange! I’m going to build an ISO for 22100.2314 and see if it will repair install. This is getting decidedly interesting…

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24H2 Gets WU Boost

Here’s something quite interesting. Yesterday, MS published a Windows IT Pro blog post entitled Windows 11, 24H2 improved update fundamentals. It’s worth reading, and makes claims for faster installs and restarts, lower CPU consumption, and smaller update packages in the latest OS version. Today, WindowsLatest  offered some data to back that up, showing that indeed 24H2 gets WU boost going forward. Its findings are interesting, too.

What 24H2 Gets WU Boost Apparently Means

As you can see in the lead-in graphic, WindowsLatest compared results for 2 PCs: one running Windows 23H2 was updated to 24H2 using the March update (it appears as “Well-maintained device”); the other was running 22H2 and had the same 24H2 update applied (it appears as “Outdated Device (18 months)”). In both cases, the numbers are noteworthy, and accord with my own recent experience in installing or updating Windows 23H2 PCs to 24H2 as well.

CPU utilization goes down by around 15% for newer Windows images, and by up to 25% when transitioning from 22H2 to 24H2. Restart times speed up by one-third or more, and installation by 40% or more. Download size also drops by 200 MB, thanks mostly to omitting MS Store app updates from that download package.

The Need for Speed…

This is good news in general for all Windows 11 users. But it’s especially good news for IT pros who typically handle fleet upgrades in time-constrained update windows. Often these fall on holiday weekends to make sure there’s enough time to get through the cycle (and fix any gotchas that pop up along the way, as they sometimes do). Anything MS can do to speed the time it takes to physically process updates also helps shorten the time window necessary to do them at scale. Thus, it’s a nice case of good news all the way around.

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